The Designated Women
First, I want to respond with my gut feeling about being a woman leader in the PCC today. We’ve certainly come a long way in being treated equally. I think that a woman is more often being evaluated on her skills than on the basis of gender. I have been active in four presbyteries since 1985 and have not felt that I was treated differently for some time. However, one caveat is that I am part of a couple, with a well-respected husband. I think that it may still be more difficult for a single woman.
I sat in on the General Assembly last year in Vancouver and noticed a natural flow of women at the microphone. This is so different from years ago when we kept hoping that more women would be brave enough to enter the male dominated discussions.
Second, I want to share my memories of the early years of the Women in Ministry Committee. I remember discussing the pros and cons of wearing more feminine clergy clothing—even venturing into some colour other than black! There was a growing awareness that we didn’t need to copy male clergy behaviour to be acceptable. During that changing period I was personally encouraged when I attended a retreat with a woman minister who led in a collegial manner. The typical male behaviour of appearing to have all the answers was not a required aspect of ordination! (That helped me later to seek ordination.)
Third, I want to talk about the reason that I did the research and wrote the book, From the Bottom Up: a Story of Collegial Leadership, published in 2011.
In 1991 there was great excitement over celebrating 25 years since women’s ordination became possible. Such a significant milestone! However, I was caught up short by a laudatory piece by Nancy Cox on the work done by women over those 25 years. (It may have been on the back cover of the Record.) It made it appear that women’s leadership in the church had only begun in 1966. There was not even a nod given to the hundreds of PCC “designated” women who had worked side by side with ordained males in their communities (and sometimes even led congregations on their own) since 1908.
Often deaconesses were sent into a new community to develop connections, perhaps a Sunday School or other outreach, often in muddy streets and other difficult conditions. Once they had established the beginnings of a church, then an ordained male would be sent in to carry on the work.
I notice that you have been emailing “both lay and ordained women.” I suspect that you are unaware of a third category, women who served as deaconesses and now are known as Diaconal Ministers (official title since 1994). The majority of the latter are now ordained but some still prefer diaconal status. (I was designated in 1986 and ordained in 1996.) However, even after ordination, most of us still think of ourselves as diaconal because our emphasis is on giving collegial leadership.
Our present PCC Moderator, Karen Horst, is an ordained minister who built on her diaconal training and experience. Her story in my book provides an excellent summary of the experience of many in diaconal ministry.
Before 1966, women who wished to work in the church had no opportunity to be ordained. Many of their stories speak of that pain, but some decided to stand up for themselves and carried out the work to which God called them in spite of church rules. You may guess that I still harbour some anger for the injustice of the church’s behaviour towards their diaconal women workers. They were glad to call on them when needed but they were also the first whose jobs were cut when finances became tight. The worst part, to my mind, is that their important role in our history is increasingly forgotten.
—Joyce Davis
Much Has Changed, Albeit Slowly
In 1977, there were no women ministers in any denomination between Ottawa and at least Deep River [probably beyond] and the two-point charge of St. Andrew’s Cobden and St. Andrew’s Ross decided to go out on a limb with a woman minister. It was a deeply rewarding spiritual union and journey, on both sides, I would say. Why they decided to “take a chance” when no one else in the Ottawa Valley had, only they could say. But it was a time of grace and growth for all of us—just under eight years.
This year, I celebrate my 40th anniversary of ordination and much has changed—the ratio of men to women clergy in our denomination has changed entirely. We women are no longer “a very few.” Right now, I’m interim moderator and find that for the search committee the gender of the applicants to be their minister hasn’t made any difference to them at all.
A number of years ago, women were mostly associates, assistants, or in rural/remote parishes. I don’t know if this has changed, since my focus and heart’s calling have always been with rural and smaller congregations—that’s where I’ve wanted to be. Consequently, I suspect that my stipend has been a bit lower than some colleagues and thus my pension. But rural and smaller were a conscious and happy choice for me. I don’t know if women who wish to serve in larger centres find they are open to them or not.
Years back, it was often more difficult to gain respect from colleagues than from parishioners—for opinions and reflections, authority and competence. Much of that has changed, albeit more slowly than it should have.
The attention I received from every media source when I became the first woman moderator is indicative that in the early 90s, we had miles to go as a denomination in the area of equality. It’s remarkable that we’ve quit describing women moderators as the first or the second, etc.
It has taken the church a little time to know what to do with women ministers, single or married, but we seem to be getting there. The role of the minister’s “spouse” has also undergone significant changes, because some spouses are working outside the church, and some are men, etc. Many of the old role stereotypes are being redefined, but that is true in most families and in society.
—Linda Bell
Will I Ever Get Another Job In The PCC If This Is Published?
Shortly after I moved across several provinces to take up a new ministry, a clergy member of presbytery sent me an email to extend a personal welcome. How nice. A few weeks later, I ran into the man on my way to a meeting. Again he was effusive in his praise and celebration of my arrival to the presbytery and my new leadership in ministry. With a broad smile, he stepped into my space and, stroking my arm, told me how much he looked forward to working with me. I felt uncomfortable and pulled away. The next time the man approached me I dodged his exuberant embrace.
Several months later, we had an altercation over a business matter in which he demanded payment to complete a job for which he had already received full payment from my predecessor. Eventually, my colleagues picked up on my discomfort with this individual and when asked about it in a meeting I replied that my reasons were both professional and personal but did not offer details. Unfortunately, not everyone understood. Or did they?
Following the meeting, a colleague who was also one of my superiors drew me aside and offered this piece of sage advice: “If [name of person] ever touches you, you just tell him, ‘Don’t touch!'” I was aghast. How did he know that this person had approached me in such a way? Was there a history of similar behaviour? The man with the soothing voice was a highly-respected, senior clergy who advocated mandatory boundaries workshops for all members of presbytery. Clearly, unbeknownst to him, his advice indicated that his concern first and foremost is to protect the old boys even if it means belittling the claim of anyone who shakes their sanctuary. I did not reply that I believe these advances had to do with a desire for power and privilege, not sex. It was tough enough to hold my head up high.
I continue to encounter congregations in which opposition to the ordination of women remains among some elders and congregants. This is not surprising given that a senior leader of the PCC has said many times that “most congregations prefer to have a young man with his young family as their minister.” Why has the PCC failed to mentor women to take top administrative positions in national offices and theological colleges? Why is it that few ministers will actively counter and educate congregants and elders on this issue of the ordination of women and the role of women in senior administrative and teaching positions in our church? Don’t ask, don’t tell!
—Anonymous
Challenges of a Layperson
As a layperson and a woman within the Presbyterian Church in Canada I have at times felt very supported and encouraged and at other times have hit the glass ceiling and found it to be stained glass. I can recall talking with a clergy friend and she told me as a layperson I would never be considered an equal as I was born ten years too early.
My calling is to serve the church as a layperson. I was challenged by a very senior one day at the General Assembly in 1975 immediately after I returned from serving in Taiwan. He suggested that I should study for the Ministry of Word and Sacraments. I never considered it, as I knew my calling.
If I had not had the privilege of working alongside people like Dr. Hugh Davidson, Dr. Harry Waite, and Dr. Ted Siverns, I would have not had the visibility that I had. I remember Ted Siverns giving me a mug that said, “There is always room at the top.” I still have it. It has on it a picture of a women climbing a ladder.
There were certainly times when I never felt equal but I did feel equal when nominated and elected to be Moderator of the 132nd General Assembly, but it ended. I was shocked when not invited to pronounce the benediction at the close of the opening of General Assembly when I was completing my term. This was hurtful as the Moderator always pronounced the benediction at the close of a service in which he/she has delivered the sermon/address.
The Moderator of Presbytery was also a woman and our only involvement in the communion service was to pass out the bread and the wine to the servers. I felt this was a time when my role and that of the Moderator of Presbytery should have been recognized. We were both women!
It was very obvious when invitations arrived for me to be invited to attend services as Moderator that I was rarely invited to a larger congregation. Was this because I was a woman or was it because I was a layperson? I have watched carefully where the clergy (all men) are going since and they are invited to the larger congregations.
Because I served as Moderator of the General Assembly many assume I am clergy. I challenge laypeople to allow their name to stand for this office. I need company!
When I was appointed to Taiwan in 1969 by the Women’s Missionary Society because I was a single woman. Single men and couples were appointed by what was then called the Board of World Missions. Our stipends were different—GBM’s much higher than the WMS. Single women had to pay towards their rent but the men did not. The discrepancy also continued into the amalgamation.
After the amalgamation in 1972-73, I asked about staying in the mission apartments when on furlough and there was a great hesitation as the apartments belonged to the Board of World Mission and I was a WMS appointment. I challenged the BWM saying that I thought we were all one. I am pleased to say that I was allowed to stay in the apartment only on the condition that other single women could stay with me while I was occupying it. Being a single woman affected my pension or it could have if I had not written to the Pension Board. I was so fortunate that they were sympathetic to my years of service and I continue to be grateful to the Pension Board.
I believe one of the most hurtful things (and, again, I am not sure it was because I am a layperson) when I retired from International Ministries I was told that I could not serve on a national church board or committee as I had worked in the office. This has not been the case of the clergy or people retiring having served overseas. I have been nominated but always overlooked.
However, I hasten to say that I am happy in my present roll of service.
—Wilma Welsh
Leaning In
One thing I have been thinking about a lot lately is from Lean In, where Sheryl Sandberg says women will only apply to a job if they have one hundred percent of the skills and feel very confident in their ability to do the job. Men will apply for a job even if they don’t know if they have skills and even if they haven’t any experience in a certain area.
This seems to me to be a real wake-up call for interim moderators and congregations—that they may have to seek out and encourage female applicants, particularly if it is a congregation that has typically had male clergy leadership.
Congregations may be missing out on wonderful applicants and/or are passing by applicants who know they are really ready for a new challenge. This also seems to be an encouragement for women to take some risks and apply to where they feel Spirit may be tugging them, not just where they feel they have one hundred percent of the skills already.
I have all sorts of good stories—of being mentored and encouraged by older male colleagues and of being given positions of responsibility. I also have difficult stories—especially around maternity leave—where I think we have a long way to go yet.
One story though: I was at the annual Presbyterian Church Camp and Conference Association Conference at a book study on Lean In. We were talking about the fact that in many congregations, it isn’t typical for a woman to follow a woman that many congregations, explicitly or implicitly, would prefer to have a male minister after a female minister. Later that day I was asked to be the next PCCCA Board President, following a very capable, younger woman. I was very close to saying no, thinking I might not have the skills or gifts to help lead the organization forward, when I remembered that book study from the morning. I felt a sense of responsibility and a renewed sense that each step forward by one woman, is a step forward for all of us.
Questions I’m not sure we have given enough thought to about the complicating factors of gender and race, gender and class, gender and sexuality, and gender and parenting. As a straight, white, English speaking, raised Presbyterian clergy-woman, I have certain privileges that all my colleagues do not. What are we doing to allow single mother access to seminary? How are supporting English as an additional language for women pastors to find their first calls? Are we ensuring safe space and support for single clergy-women in their calls? How are we encouraging clergy-women with the dual responsibilities with children at home and aging parents, in addition to a two-point charge?
— Theresa McDonald-Lee
Potential For Inequality
In the past, as a clergywoman, I have seen and experienced preferential treatment being given to my male counterparts, both in seminary and in churches. It has always been easier for men to be called to a church. In my graduating year in seminary, one of my male colleagues received a call from a church even before finishing the final year. Whereas most, if not all, of my female classmates waited about six months to a year after graduation before receiving a call to a church, if at all.
In the last 20 to 30 years, much of this has changed. I see many churches calling women to be their minister, however, I don’t know if this is because their preference has changed or because there are more women in the ministry and less men to choose from. I also still see some churches that prefer to call a man if they had a choice.
Certainly, women in the ministry have had to fight to get to where they are today. They were not given their lot on a silver platter. Women often took the small rural churches as their charge but it was rare, maybe non-existent, for women to be the senior pastor of a large urban congregation. Today, I see a few women in some large congregations but still the majority are men.
In the past, women in the church did a lot of the kitchen work. Kitchen work itself is not a bad thing, but comparatively speaking, the men often did the decision-making and intellectual roles. Today, women are more involved in the decision-making and intellectual roles as more women become elders on session in their churches. So, there appears to be more equality and balance in the activities that men and women are involved in within the church.
Women’s style of ministry tends to be different from men. They tend to be more relational in their approach and so they tend to lean towards pastoral care more. Also, women tend to think more about children and youth and therefore it is more natural for them to put priority on Christian education. There is nothing wrong with that, perhaps it is even a good thing, however many churches require good strong preaching from their ministers. This would be one of the challenges for women ministers today. They would need to bring around a change in the definition of ministry and show the benefits of women’s style of ministry.
It is difficult to share about my personal story without revealing the fact that I am an ethnic woman in ministry. I am a visible minority even among women in the PCC. My experience has been different from the “majority” women who were and are in ministry in the PCC. I would like to keep anonymous and so I will share my personal experience another time. But I can say that, for women like myself, I have always faced a double-whammy and have had to be extra sharp to overcome double barriers.
No, I don’t feel like equals in the church. But, good or bad, I see some areas tipping on the equality scale, and sometimes men seem to be on the lower end of the scale, especially in situations where the men are now the minority. I think women have gained a lot of power and clout in the church and in some churches it appears that women run the church. Hopefully we would not create a reverse situation in the church where the women are dominant and powerful over the men.
We still need women’s organizations in our church. We are not yet at a stage in church history where women and men can “fight” in the same ring. That would be unfair—it would be like two fighters being given different (and imbalanced) weapons. Although women are given the same opportunities in education, they still do not have the same opportunities in the church for work. Through women’s organizations, women’s causes and interests can be centralized and brought together, so that, together, women can continue to raise awareness and also give support to each other. The fact is, if men and women are created differently, then their needs would also be different, as well as many other things like priorities in life, style of communicating, interests, etc. A women’s organization can help women to come together so that they can understand these differences and also understand themselves as women.
People think that women’s equality/inequality issues is a thing of the past. Unless they experience it for themselves in the church they will not see the inequality that is potentially still there in many churches. It depends partly on their level of involvement in the church and their level of awareness about gender issues in the church. I still come across people in the church, both men and women, who don’t see calling God “He” an issue. For many people, they don’t come to church to fight gender issues; the majority of people come to church seeking comfort and a place to belong. If they fit in they will be homogeneous with the rest of their church and likely will not have big issues. It would be easier for them to see racial issues in their church partly because it is still very much an issue today out in society. Church is a very personal thing; if any of these issues, whether gender, racial, sexual orientation, etc., are encountered through some members within the church, then the people in the pews would become aware of it, but if while church remains homogeneous then they wouldn’t know any difference.
I think there is always the potential for inequality to be in our churches because women and men are different and the power struggle will always be there. From that end, we still need women’s organizations in our church so that through such organizations women can be empowered, awareness-raised, and keep fighting for equality.
—Anonymous
Precarious Opportunities
I was ordained by the PC(USA), and contrary to the PCC, was ordained as Assistant Director of Villa International Atlanta. VIA is a ministry of hospitality to international health care workers coming to the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, GA. The ministry was sponsored by the Synod of South Atlantic, as well as six other Christian denominations, and the Roman Catholic Diocese. This was a great ‘laboratory’ to practice ministry with an ecumenical board and a wide cross section of guests from all around the world. I worked at Villa part-time while as a student at Columbia Theological Seminary I completed my M.Div. and D. Min. While working at Villa, I had the opportunity to frequently engage in interfaith dialogue, as the majority of guests were Muslim, Hindu, Bahai, or completely secular. Those who were Christian were predominately Roman Catholic. The board also brought great diversity and theological richness.
When I came to Canada and became part of the PCC, it was with the realization that women in ministry were more of a minority than in the US. I sensed this in Presbytery, especially in observing those who spoke and whose opinions carried more weight. (The amount of plaid was also shocking, as I realized the PCC definitely had a more definitive Scottish flavor.) My usual response is to network, so I developed an ecumenical group of women clergy for support and friendship.
I found this to be an important outlet, especially as a newcomer.
I can also remember showing up to preach at a church that was vacant. I approached the door with my robe over my arm and was asked by someone, “Are you going to sing for us today?” I replied in a very positive way, “No, I’m going to preach for you today.” This was a congregation that has historically had only male ministers. I had that sinking feeling in my stomach that it would be a very tough ‘audience.’
My aspirations have never been for a big steeple church. I am passionate about pastoral care and ecumenism. I found my niche in campus ministry. It is a part-time position and much of my time is dedicated to grant writing and fundraising. This seems to be the Achilles heel for so many women. Ministry opportunities are more precarious.
While I love the principles of ecumenism, it too seems precarious. Campus ministry in the 70s was one of the ecumenical highlights. Denominational partnerships and grants brought security and great opportunities. By the end 1980s grants were beginning to erode and by the mid-1990s the grant by the United Church (the largest single funder) was cut in half.
When I began as Ecumenical Chaplain it was for a nine-month position. This was turned down by a male candidate because he would only accept full time employment.
Currently the position is ten-months, but the budget is always presented with the proviso that if adequate funds are not raised then the chaplain’s salary will be reduced to nine months. My pension benefits are paid, but no health insurance. I am fortunate to have a spouse whose benefit package covers me, and whose salary compensates. For many women a part-time salary would be a hardship. With declining membership, part-time is more the norm that the exception. And, more and more women find themselves in the position of accepting part-time ministry in order to care for children or aging parents.
— Carol Wood
I’m What They Got
My situation as a professor is so particular, I think it’s ‘outside this scope of interest. So much of advancement within the academic world is on the basis of teaching ability and publishing both for the academy and the church, that some of the effects of old style ‘sexism’ are somewhat muted (at least now—earlier on, there was more of an issue).
I do feel like I have been very well accepted within the two colleges of the PCC where I have taught. And in my many forays into guest preaching and adult education in local churches all over the country, I think there were times when being a woman caught a few people off guard, but generally I was well accepted and respected for what I could do rather than for representing a certain gender.
One humorous incident happened early in my time at Knox College, around 1997 or so. I was a guest preacher at a small church north of Toronto and when I found my way through an open door early that Sunday morning, I was greeted by an elder. When I introduced myself as the preacher for the day and the professor of Old Testament from Knox, he blurted out “You don’t look like an Old Testament professor!” Not sure what they were expecting, but I’m what they got!
—Pat Dutcher-Walls
Being A Woman Has Made No Difference
Given that I am a second-career minister, my story is bound to be very different from a young woman who has gone from high school to university to seminary to a call. Let me say, first of all, that I have never felt inequality because of my gender. While I recognize that it does exist from speaking to colleagues, personally speaking, I have found that being a woman has made no difference that I know of. However, it is possible that some of the places where I put my profile when I was seeking a call just eliminated me because I was a woman. I have no way of knowing that. I do know that I was told that, before I was called at my current position, there was a lot of discussion about the wisdom of calling a woman. (I am the first woman in this charge.)
I am part of a very small presbytery, which means that we cannot afford to let gender dictate roles. This may be different in Presbyteries with more members, but I cannot comment on that. I am presently the Moderator of Presbytery, and never felt less of a Moderator because I am a woman. My sessions are predominantly female.
Sadly, this is not true of all churches. There are still churches within the PCC who will not ordain female elders nor call a female minister. When I say this to members of the congregation which I serve, they can hardly believe it.
I thank those first female ministers in the PCC, because I know that some of them had a hard row to hoe. I have heard stories from female minister friends that have shocked me to the core. But, personally, since I entered ministry, I have never experienced any kind of gender discrimination.
—Anonymous
Often Left Out
It is rather difficult to speak on this as it is hard to be anonymous as the only Status First Nations female minister in the PCC. I don’t know if others have the same challenges as I do as a woman minister because some of my challenges may relate more to being both Indigenous than being a woman in ministry in the PCC. I suppose I could speak from an ethnic perspective even though I would rather speak from my own reality. Yet I’m not sure I want to do that. It might undo some of the progress I have made in this Presbytery so far.
One thing is that we as Indigenous people are still not included when others go out for social outings during retreats or synod meetings, things like that. But that’s not necessarily by just the men.
There is a little clique of young White men in our presbytery who glom together very well, often supporting each other on issues and concerns they have in common. A similar women’s ministers’ clique is not evident to me.
—Rev. Mary Fontaine
Men Rule The Roost
Although women have made many advances in and out of the church in the last few decades, we are still second-class citizens in the courts of the church. Men rule the roost! Especially male ministers. Is this because women want it that way (because there are lots of women minister and women elders who are members) or if it is because when they do speak out they are either ignored or denigrated. I don’t believe that most women would say still that “men know best,” but some men seem to still think that way. Thus women are not appointed to positions of power, generally, and if they are it is because the power is on the surface only, not real i.e. moderator of GA.
We have become a church of legalistic rules makers rather than a community of caring and loving friends. There are exceptions, thank goodness, but our courts most often do not reflect the love of God through Jesus Christ, despite our fine words.
—Betty Siverns
Equally saved, equally valued, and equally called
Not long after I was ordained back in 1979, I was invited to speak at a Women’s Day of Prayer. Afterwards an elderly lady spoke to me. There were tears in her eyes. She clutched my hand and said how glad she was to meet me, and how delighted she was to finally be meeting a woman minister.
“You know,” she said, “When I was a young girl I believed that God was calling me to be a minister. But of course that was impossible. I tried to be as involved in the church as much as I could. I taught Sunday school, I was a part of the women’s groups. I have strived to follow Christ and to build up his Church … but you know my dear…somehow I always felt that I let the Lord down. I just couldn’t do what He was calling me to do. I am so happy for you and your generation. If you hear God’s call to ministry you can follow it!”
Fifty years ago the Presbyterian Church in Canada voted to ordain women. For some of us 1966 doesn’t seem all that long ago; for others, it’s more than a life time. In fact they can’t remember a time when only men were elders and ministers.
In the Bible, 40 years denotes a generation. So we can say, that it has been a generation now that the Presbyterian Church in Canada has been ordaining women.
Nine years ago, the General Assembly marked the 40th Anniversary of the Ordination of Women with the usual cake, refreshments and speeches. During the sederent, a power point presentation was made that gave a quick historical over view. Our first woman Moderator, Rev. Dr. Linda Bell was invited to speak to share some of her memories and thoughts.
Linda shared with the Commissioners something that happened in the weeks leading up to the Assembly where she would be Moderator. In the mail one morning she received an anonymous letter that contained a very clear death threat. She didn’t know what to do. She called the clerks of Assembly and they too confided that the Assembly office had received the same kind of letter.
Linda said she was completely shaken that her nomination as the first woman Moderator could bring such hate and anger and possible scandal to the church that she loved. She wondered if she should decline. The Clerks and the staff at the National Office said that they were taking the letter seriously, but that if she was willing, they had a plan. They had plain clothes police officers at that Assembly and wherever Linda went, the staff stood by her, literally to shield her if possible, and to give her support and strength.
During a coffee break after Linda’s presentation I overheard two young women talking. “Did you hear what she said about that letter? I can’t believe anyone in the church would ever write such a letter? Just because she’s a woman? I don’t think that really happened—do you? I can’t even imagine it!”
Two young women who had grown up in a church that embraced them just couldn’t imagine what it would feel like to be excluded, to be the focal point of hatred.
I had my own personal reactions listening to Linda speak that day. In my joy of all my years of ministry, I had forgotten the hate mail that I had received as a theological student; some slid under my door, some tacked onto the bulletin boards for all to see, some said to my face.
I had forgotten the whispered sexist comments, the nasty letters, and the derogatory speeches. I had almost forgotten the terrible interview for licensing where I was asked why the church was investing its time and money in women, why did I hate men, what would I do if I ever got pregnant, and would I handle the communion elements if I was menstruating? As Linda Bell spoke that day, the memories flooded back. Memories of the times I called my parents in tears, and the terrible nightmares I had, of a stranger coming into church and shooting me as I led worship.
Everywhere ideologies and religions can be corrupted to entrench power for men who are seeking a form of security in false dominance. Powerless, they make sure that someone has even less power than they; their daughters, their wives, their sisters and even their own mothers. We see this lived out in sad, horrific and tragic stories every day—events not only from other countries but from our own communities; our own neighbourhoods.
Women can be seduced by toxic religious systems into thinking that their destiny, their calling, is always to be the supporters, and never the leaders, of their families, their communities, and their country.
It’s true that some of the first women ministers and elders had a tough time. Some were not accepted, others were insulted and shunned by some parishioners and colleagues, and in some places they faced sexual harassment. However, most were warmly received as elders and ministers and encouraged to serve in a great variety of ministries.
Perhaps we have been able to change the face of the church. If it is true that we are becoming more inclusive, less hierarchical, and encouraging of the gifts of all of God’s people for ministry then we are privileged to have seen monumental change in the imaging of the church. Or perhaps it has been more of a reclaiming of what we know is already true, that “God created humankind in God’s image” and that “there is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female, for all are one in Christ Jesus.” Equally saved, equally valued, and equally called.
—Rev. Linda Ashfield
Sexualized and ‘Othered’
During my years studying at a denominational College in the early 90s I had several males in my class who were open about their resistance to the ordination of women. As a mid-20s young woman who had grown up in a congregation that had ordained elders to both ruling and teaching eldership since the 1960s this kind of resistance to women’s ordination was incredibly disorienting. Several of the women at the College during this time created a women’s spirituality and support group (with help of the ecumenical chaplain). Posters inviting other women to join our group were slashed (seemingly with a knife or sharp object) throughout the College every time they were posted. We (along with the faculty leadership) took this as a threat against us and against the idea of women gathering to meet for support and prayer. While it did not feel like a safe space for us, the support of each other and the faculty helped. As well, it prepared me for some of the resistance to women in leadership I would encounter in the larger denomination.
On several occasions I was the first female to preach in a number of local pulpits. There was a huge amount of pressure for me to excel at preaching and leading in prayer because it was clear I was representing the whole of my gender in the pulpit. One mistake and the finger pointing might begin—more proof that women shouldn’t be in the pulpit. For me this worked. I enjoyed the challenge and have enough of a competitive edge in me that I could excel. However, this is not a good thing. Throughout my studies and work in the church I have carried a very strong sense that I am representing my gender and better serve the cause.
The number of times I supply preached over the years and people would comment on what I was wearing (actually that still happens), whether it was appropriate to wear big earrings or heals, etc. etc. got tedious. Also—the endless comments “You don’t look like a minister”—even to this day continue to baffle me. Again, I reframe it in a positive way but what on earth does a minister look like?!? Male? Heavy set? White? In a suit? Anyway, I chose to get a clergy robe primarily for the reason that I would not have to put up with comments on clothing. That being said, only a few weeks ago I was leading worship with a fellow female clergy person. We both happened to be wearing black robes (which by the way, the male minister of the church wears every week) and at the door afterwards, one of the older male elders commented on how dour we looked in our black and why not more colour? He brought it up again the next week at coffee hour. There is no question in my mind that neither this elder (nor any other) would even have noticed it or commented on our black clothing if we were male and sitting up there.
One of the experiences that has been most complicated has been the inappropriate comments from other clergy. For example, after speaking at a PCC event, I left the stage, walked to the back of the room and a male colleague came up and instead of saying that he appreciated what I had said, he said “Hey there, (looking me up and down), I have never seen a sexier professor/minister Looking good.” So what was I supposed to do with that! I was totally dumbfounded and pissed off. However, there is a catch-22 in this. If I say something—it is easy to be cast off as “not having a sense of humour,” “Being too sensitive.” So instead of saying something I just smiled grimly and walked away.
Besides often being sexualized and “othered” as a woman in leadership in the church I have often experienced (and see this with women younger than me now) being treated like the daughter/granddaughter of other members of Presbytery.
Again, a certain amount of this kind of transference is expected. However, when people are very blind to their own stuff and insist on being ‘over-protective’ and ‘(grand-)fatherly’ it is difficult. I have found the floor of Presbytery to be one of the most challenging places to find my voice, and many other women, elders and ministers, struggle with this as well. I am not completely clear on why this is but part of it is finding oneself having been ‘(grand)childified’—and all the baggage that can come with that. Also, I do believe that the kind of discourse that is available to the ‘court’ system is rather mystifying for any of us who are not interested in functioning within an adversarial/by-the-rules kind of way for decision making.
I have to say, working in leadership in a secular environment is a much safer, more comfortable and thriving place than in the church for me as a woman. I never experienced any of the inappropriate sexist ridiculousness outside the church that I have and continue to experience in the church. That can also be said about working in social justice and arts circles.
—Anonymous
The Situation is Better Today, But …
When I began my studies at Knox College in 1987, I had no idea that the Presbyterian Church in Canada had been ordaining women for only 20 years. My earlier experience in another denomination had included both men and women in positions of ordained leadership.
As a woman in my early 40s who had been a full partner in business with my husband for many years, it never occurred to me that I might be discriminated against because of my gender. It was therefore both shocking and infuriating to me when I learned that the first congregation into which I was placed for a three-month part-time position, asked for the short-term posting because they weren’t sure they wanted a woman. Fortunately, for them and for me, I only learned this after they had asked me to stay on and we had developed a relationship of mutual respect and appreciation. By then I could laugh when one of the female elders told me that everyone seemed to like me, even the women.
With great pleasure, and my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I joined a group of other women in performing a skit celebrating the 25th anniversary of women’s ordination at the General Assembly. However, that same year I was saddened to learn that a number of my female colleagues were having difficulty getting a second call, once they completed their first one.
That was in the early 90s. Fortunately, the situation today seems to be better. There are certainly more women in ministry and a woman is the moderator of the 2015 General Assembly. However, how much better, is debatable.
There are still situations in which congregation members are surprised when they ‘like’ a woman minister. Despite having a woman moderator of the Assembly this year, there haven’t been very many. Year after year, I would stand up in my presbytery to remind the assembled presbyters that they had agreed back in 1990 to nominate both a man and a woman for Moderator every year. Often I was told there simply wasn’t a woman available. The number of women ministers in senior ministerial positions in the larger city churches is very small. They tend to fill the assistant, associate, or youth positions in multi-staff situations.
Personally, apart from the initial expression of bias in my first, and only congregation, I really haven’t experienced any discrimination in ministry and have greatly enjoyed the relationships that I have had with my male and female colleagues. It saddens me that congregation members don’t seem to have the same attitude toward women ministers as their clergy counterparts.
—Rev. Karen Bach
Experiencing God in a Relational Way
My journey towards ordination as a Presbyterian minister was a lengthy one. I started attending the Presbyterian Church when I was four days old. When I was seven years old [1960] I gave my life and future over to God at a daily vacation Bible School held in the Presbyterian church in Sunny Corners, New Brunswick. When I was 17 I affirmed my baptism and the decision I had made when I was seven and joined the PCC by profession of faith. The Church has always been an important part of my life and it has been crucial to the formation of who I have grown up to be.
During my formative years my father believed that women should not be ordained into positions of leadership in the Church. Despite the fact that I felt clearly called by God into leadership within the church when I was 17, Dad’s opinions and advice steered me towards serving God as a nurse and I became an active layperson within the Church.
I enjoyed nursing and was soon upwardly mobile and career orientated. I rose rapidly up through the ranks. I also became a lay preacher and a regular speaker for a professional women’s faith network that saw me travelling from place to place in Alberta where I lived at the time.
I was ordained as a ruling elder in the PCC when I was 27 years of age. My father attended my ordination and gave me his full support despite the fact that he personally still felt women should not be ordained.
In nursing I was a passionate advocate for holistic care including the bio-psycho-social-and spiritual health of a person. I was hampered by the system, restless in my spirit, and probably about 20 years ahead of my time in the nursing field.
My restlessness saw me re-evaluating my life and seeking God’s will again for my future. Still uncertain of where it might lead me in my nursing career I entered Vancouver School of Theology as an M.Div student.
I learned quickly that I did not do theology [speaking about and understanding God] in traditional or orthodox ways. I struggled through that degree finding ways to express myself that were more feminine, and more relational. I engaged the material and the professors as a professional woman and as a healer.
I was blessed with an environment in which I was forced to clearly articulate what I believed and why. Somewhere during the first year I again heard God’s call into the ministry. This time I responded. I was eventually ordained as a minister in 1992. By then I was almost 40 years old. My father had died before then but my Mom said he told her to tell me that he was proud of me on graduation day.
I still think differently, do theology differently, experience God in a relational way, challenge the systems I operate within, and passionately advocate for change where change is needed. Is that because I am woman? Or is that because I am a follower of Jesus?
—Rev. Margaret Mullin
A Deep Need To Prove Myself
I was ordained on October 20, 1991 at the tender age of 27. (This was a time when people were still getting used to the idea of women in the ministry. For example, if a female clergy person made a mistake in a church and had to leave her position, the congregation would vow to never hire another woman minister again.)
My initial experiences as a woman in the ministry were for the most part very good. I must admit I did experience some incidents related to my gender which were somewhat challenging to me. Upon arrival at my first charge I discovered that an elderly retired minister who had been going to the church for many years immediately stopped going because he did not approve of women in the ministry. I thought this would cause a rift in the congregation but people for the most part let it go. They wanted to support me and they did. I still tried to reach out to him and I had many conversations over the phone but I was never welcomed into his home. His wife, however, continued to come to church on her own.
Since that initial experience of blatant prejudice, I have experienced other similar experiences of exclusion. For example, on several occasions I have had weddings or funerals cancelled because they would “prefer to have a man conduct the service.” I know I have had other instances where I have experienced difficulties being a female in a traditionally male domain, however what I have discovered is once I have had a chance to prove myself I tend to feel more of a sense of welcome. I have also realized that for the most part the majority of Presbyterians are increasingly more comfortable with women in the ministry.
As I reflect on women in the ministry a few thoughts come to mind. I think a lot of my insecurity throughout my career was grounded in a deep need to prove myself. I spent a lot of energy in my early years of ministry working myself to the bone so that I could be seen as an equal to my male counterparts. I felt insecure in my role and even a bit defensive. I took everything to heart and wouldn’t let myself fail even once. Some of this was because of my negative experiences but I think some of it was self-imposed torture. To some extent I still feel that I have to continually improve myself to be seen as an equal but as I mature and as the church changes, those feelings are resolving.
I am glad the church turned the corner in the mid-60s to allow women to answer the call of God to serve as clergy and have full inclusion in the church. It makes me sad that the church still excludes individuals because they are different from the norm. I am reminded of Paul’s letter to the Galatians where he tells the Galatians “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ.” I pray that one day we will all learn to accept difference and variety in the church.
I want to add that in the present context of ministry working with my husband I have been treated as an equal in every way. The entire congregation has supported me and valued my ministry. It has been one of the most enriching experiences I have had. In fact, I have been in three churches and I have been loved and respected in each congregation.
—Rev. Heather Vais
“That’s My Minister!”
Recently I went to a bazaar at a church, not my own, but one where I was known. The group sponsoring the bazaar (the Ladies’ Aid) was in a flap because their minister (male) was late and they needed someone to open the bazaar with prayer. With great relief they saw a retired minister (male) from the Presbytery coming up the walk. He was called on. It’s kind of funny that that was such a “female” thing, but it didn’t occur to them to approach me.
I still have a member of my current congregation who doesn’t recognize God’s call to female clergy. Yet he stays. Makes life interesting.
Certainly in the 80s, in a team ministry with my husband, often for weddings not from the congregation the brides (and brides’ mothers!) would prefer the male member of the team. But that was an instance of discrimination by those outside the church. We didn’t give them a choice—it went to whoever answered the phone, and if they didn’t like it, they could try another church.
I conducted a funeral once for an elderly matriarch of the congregation. I was visibly pregnant. The gown did not hide it. And the widower, a faithful, elderly farmer, commented to me afterward that he found it comforting to have me there, reminding him that life goes from this world, and new life comes into this world.
At another occasion, I visited a man in the hospital. He was the janitor at a gas station/restaurant out on the highway. It was around a time when people were choosing to go somewhere else rather than have a woman be the minister for whatever their need was. I visited with him, we prayed, and I left. The elevator was right outside his room. And I heard him say to his roommate, “That’s my minister.” I can still hear the pride in his voice and I still sense the encouragement it gives to me. A real gift from God, during a rough time; and still today.
I think women have come a great distance during my time as a minister (35 plus years). They are taking much more active roles in the church courts. They are providing congregations and presbyteries with good, solid leadership both as clergy and as elders. But there is still a bit of a ways to go. The previous minister here was also female. Yet we have only two female elders out of 12; and when we held an election a few years back, there were no women elected. We are in the midst of an election now and my prayer is that God is calling more women to the Session. Great that a woman is Moderator this year!
—Rev. Helen Smith
Developed Good Rapport, After A While
When people in my home congregation of Knox, Halifax, held a surprise going-away party for me before I set off for Knox College in 1974, there was amid the good wishes and genuine support the odd joke about coming back with my M.R.S. degree. When I was being interviewed by Superintendents of Mission prior to appointment to my Ordained Missionary placement in 1977, I was asked whether I had plans to marry, and did I want to be. Underlying these jokes and questions was the assumption that a woman’s role was to marry and raise a family and that full-time ordained ministry might be in conflict with that role. In most circles, that assumption is no longer be held; one improvement I have seen over the decades.
On May 31, 1977, I was the first woman to be ordained within the bounds of the Synod of the Atlantic Provinces of The Presbyterian Church in Canada, and the first from the Presbytery of Halifax-Lunenburg. I was the first woman minister of the Colborne Pastoral Charge in the Presbytery of Lindsay-Peterborough (1977-1980), the first woman minister of Laurel Lea St. Matthew’s Church in the Presbytery of Sarnia (1982-1992), and the first woman minister of First Presbyterian Church, Pictou, NS in the Presbytery of Pictou (1992-present). While there were women ruling elders in both my first two charges, there was none on Session when I arrived in Pictou. That has since changed.
By and large, all three of my charges accepted me well. Once people realized that they could hear me (anticipating, I guess, that a woman’s voice would be too soft for preaching!), there developed good rapport and ministry together in each place.
Any discrimination or, more often, patronizing attitude, came from only a few colleagues, usually older but not always. It was not necessarily from a theological objection to the ordination of women but from habits and patterns of traditional male-female relationships. The vast majority of my colleagues, though, throughout my ministry have treated me as an equal.
One early experience of the theological divide in the church came with the appeal by a man to General Assembly. Because of his opposition to the ordination of women, the Presbytery of East Toronto turned him down for licensing. The Synod of Toronto-Kingston upheld the decision of East Toronto and the appeal went to the 1980 General Assembly, my first assembly as commissioner. The whole debate over “liberty of conscience” preoccupied the church for a few years. It was a time when women who had already been ordained as teaching and ruling elders felt as if their call and their ordinations were being called into question. It was a great relief when the General Assembly in 1982 finally upheld and affirmed unconditionally the ordination of women.
The high number of women serving in the church as ministers and elders has put to rest the question of whether women can handle the responsibilities or whether their call is of God. I think we have even got past the stage of failure in ministry being blamed on gender. Search committees have realized they cannot (and usually don’t want to) screen out candidates based on gender. Congregations, in my experience, are more interested in the competence and qualities of the minister than whether the minister is man or woman.
There continues to be the nagging issue of inclusive language sometimes (not considered important by some) and I worry a little that in our society younger generations of women have fallen into older patterns and stereotypes of roles, which may affect our expectations in the church. There persists also even among some younger ministers a kind of “old boys network” that, while not overt discrimination, can hamper collegiality and mutual respect among women and men.
On the whole, however, I believe women are equal and are considered equal in our church. We have come a long way, thanks be to God!
— Rev. E.M. Iona MacLean
“A She?”
I grew up believing, that as a woman, I could do or be anything. I knew that many women (and men) fought the good fight to make sure that I grew up believing that. I never thought I would hear what I’ve heard as a woman in ordained ministry in the last two years.
“When I heard a woman was preaching for the call, I assumed the worst.” Said in a card of congratulations after my call to the congregation. My “soft-spoken” voice and the fact that I had a husband and children won over the female card writer.
“The minister’s a woman!” Said out loud by an older gentleman, in the silence, as I walked, red-faced, to the microphone to say a blessing at a church dinner. It was hard to tell if it was said in surprise or dismay or maybe he was just stating the obvious.
“If we rotate preachers in the community churches at the annual unity worship service, then we’ll have to deal with the ‘problem’ of women in ministry.” Said at the local ministerial meeting with two women ministers, by a minister in a denomination that does not allow the ordination of women. (I feel like my presence is tolerated at those meetings.)
“A she!? Your minister’s a woman? That’s just not right, read 1 Timothy chapter 2.” Said to my secretary when a woman called to order tickets for a church dinner.
“I guess it’s okay for women to be ministers, but these days the masculinity of men is being threatened and they need to be affirmed as leaders too.” Said by woman.
“Are there, uh, many like you out there?” Said by a couple at a funeral.
In some ways, it’s not a big deal. The objections have mainly come from people outside the Presbyterian denomination. The problem is that deep down, even though my heart tells me my ministry is blessed by God and my head tells me that Scripture is contextual, all the little comments and the big objections chip away at the confidence I have in my call. Ministry is hard enough without doubting my ability because of my gender. What if they’re right though? What if there is something unusual or wrong with women leading congregations? What if a woman can’t effectively lead, preach, counsel, pray, teach, listen, comfort, bless …? But then I remember, women do all those things, all the time, and so do I. I have to believe that the church is better off for it.
—Rev. Tobey Boyer
Been Blessed
I’ve been blessed to have had a very good experience as a woman in ministry over the years. When I was ordained at age 25, in the late 1990s, any issues of being accepted were more about being young than being a woman. Misconceptions about women ministers were found in the community, not in the congregations.
When I came to my current charge 13 years ago as the first woman to be called as minister, the congregation needed to learn about my style and strengths as they would with any other minister. They did learn that I couldn’t play the role of the minister’s wife and the minister at the same time! We needed to learn to work together. As more and more women lead in churches, gender is less and less of an issue if at all.
I had to teach my colleagues that I was willing to travel and participate in committees of the church when my children were young. I’m grateful to have had a very positive maternity leave, and to be granted a 10 month unpaid leave when my children were young and my husband was working away so we could be together as a family. This kind of flexibility is invaluable for long-term ministry.
I feel very much like an equal as I lead and speak in the Presbytery, Synod and on national committees. Members and ministers of our church, male and female, have empowered me and encouraged me to participate and lead at all levels of the church as I was called.
The vast majority of people in the pews do not see any inequality between women and men.
Occasionally, as I speak or lead as a guest in other congregations, there are comments about my appearance—how I must stay thin by being so busy with my children! I doubt that men would be offered this kind of feedback. Even if the comments are favourable, I’d prefer that people compliment me based on my gifts in ministry rather than on my appearance.
I think there are some misunderstandings/challenges around a woman’s style of leadership, and the way they work. As a woman with school-aged children, I may not work as many evenings, and I may leave the office some days at 3:30 p.m. However, I am always in the office or working from home between 8 and 8:30 a.m. once the kids are on the school bus.
When I work (mindful that I have limited time), my work is usually focused. If necessary, I’m working from home later in the evening. I take Saturday off, and try to guard that day as much as possible. When a pastoral need or an event is important, I am there regardless of family schedules or challenges. My own congregations have always been very understanding and helpful. I hope that in time, congregations of all shapes and sizes, rural and urban, will be flexible in allowing for different schedules and ways of carrying out a minister’s work that enable them to have a healthy ministry and a healthy family life.
I’ve heard that these types of challenges for working women are not unique to ministry, and men may find similar challenges. When you are always on call, and need to be ‘on’ when out in the community, it is crucial to prioritize down time and time with family.
—Rev. Lara Scholey
Still Work to Be Done
In 1976, I started working as an area educational consultant. I was the only woman serving for miles and I
experienced the delight of having comments made repeatedly about my hairstyles, outfits and distracting presence. Added to the fun was the repeated applause that I would get for my reports when no one else received the same.
Today, while we have experienced so many capable women in leadership at all levels of the church, we would be foolish to state that complete equality has been achieved. You need only look at the Acts and Proceedings to discover that women serving larger congregations are not being paid comparable to men in similar charges. For example, I serve a larger congregation than my husband, but I am paid less. I am also aware of congregations within my presbytery that have still not had a woman minister. The Life and Mission Agency has not yet hired a woman to be its general secretary. The decades-old desire for inclusive language still seems difficult to achieve at the grassroots.
We have come a long way but our work is not done.
—Rev. Karen Horst
Strong Opinions
Do i feel equally able to express my strong opinions? Well, based on 37 years’ experience, women with strong opinions pay in a different way—in terms of respect, opportunity, reputation—than men do. It certainly has shaped my ministry.
That kind of watchfulness over women who have strong opinons I think still exists. If you’re Miss Congeniality, you’re going to have less resistance than if you’re a woman who speaks out.
—Rev. Dr. Nancy Cocks
